Revival of Doctrine, Truth, Soundness of Mind and Sanity.
TV Preachers...
So I've been watching LeSea Broadcasting tonight, and I think the dude on there now is Mike Murdock. Or Murdoch. Or Matt. Something. Anyway, he's talking about the 'Favor 40' - 40 people who need to call in and donate at least $1000 on their bank card or credit card. He's convinced that he's good soil for people to sow into, but after a while I just got so tickled about it that I called the number on the screen.
To be honest, I thought I was gonna get some 30-something burnout who just needed a job, but I ended up talking to the sweetest old lady. I didn't have the heart to ask her why Jesus told the rich young dude to sell everything he had and give that money to the poor, nor about the passage in Proverbs that compares giving to the poor and lending to the Lord, letting Him repay.
To be honest, I choked when I was on the phone with her. There have been other situations recently where I've had to be very black and white concerning doctrine and obscene ways of thinking, and that with people who were once close friends. So what's the ideal way to try and save people from the gospel of greed? Obviously it varies from person to person, but with the advent of political correctness, universalism, total acceptance, and moral relativism, there's a comfort in finding something solid...something that doesn't get it's core changed when a fault is found; something that has no fault.
If we know what we're looking for in God and have the ability to swallow hard, then it's a little easier to acknowledge that the problem is with us.
At my job, I come in contact with a lot of people, and I've gotten a whole lot of tracts. The most recent one I received a few days ago, and I was getting kind of fed up with them, so I tried to give it back to the chick that handed it to me, saying, "I already go to church." But she got pushy and told me to make sure. To be honest, that actually frustrated me. Why are pushy people usually the ones that are wrong?
I got home, pulled the tract out of my pocket, and the first page, in huge font, read "THE LORD KILLS - REPENT!" Sounds like a Fred Phelps ripoff to me. It went on to explain to me that God hates (Psalm 5:5-6, 11:5, 78:59, 106:40, Hosea 9:15, Jeremiah 12:8, Romans 9:11-13, Leviticus 20:23, 26:30, and Proverbs 22:14), that God is angry (A personal favorite...Psalm 7:11, Romans 1:18-32) that believers pray against people, (Psalm 55:15, 69:22-28, 109, Revelation 6:10, 2 Timothy 4:14), that Christmas is a Catholic/Pagan lie and not at all biblical (John 4:24, Jeremiah 10:1-5, Revelation 22:15, Deuteronomy 12:29-32), that women are to be silent in church, that God causes all, even sin (Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:23, 17:9, Romans 1:28f, 11:32, 36), God kills babies (Hosea 9:16), God creates people for hell (Proverbs 16:4, Romans 9:6-24, Psalm 92:5-7), God sends lies (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, 2 Chronicles 18:18-22), God brings disasters (Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6, Lamentations 3:38, Revelations 6-19), Jerusalem is God (Psalm 48:12-14, Jeremiah 33:16, Psalm 137:6).
Of course I have to confess that I gave up checking out the references by the second one I listed here. There's more, but some are actually correct. That second one, about God being angry, meant more with the wicked than just sitting on His throne being moody. It just tickled me.
What struck me the most was the very last page of this tract, past the part that talked about Billy Graham being a false teacher and Easter not being a true Christian holiday, was their financial perspective. Here's exactly what it said:
"God does not need your money! This is printed in the name of the 'Rock of Offense' (1 Peter 2:8). We operate strictly by faith, without having to ask for any money. Without your contribution, God can and still does save people!" Then it went on to quote 2 Corinthians 2:17.
So how should I have dealt with the chick that gave me that tract at work? Told her to wait until I had a break so we could sit down and go over this drivel? I try to be as nice and Christiany as the next dude, but when someone tries to take a dump on my mind in the name of God it's a little upsetting.
So I pose to you the question: What would you do if someone was as pushy with you about the crap they're handing out? Would you take it, fold it up, and swat them with it until they got to the solace of their car, and then put it under the windshield wiper? Just throw it away? Light some incense and burn the tract with it? What?
I know that, at least for me personally, the time for timidity has been winding down for a while now. God's been bothering me about stepping up and being a respectable (read: atypical) Christian, but He's also been speaking to me about toning down the temper that still flares up in a nasty way every once in a while. I've been given instructions on what to do to deal with it, but there's also time involved; I've prepared my recipe but I still have to spend time in the oven. So how should wiser, more mature, more 'sanctified' Christians deal with people who continue to evangelize naivety and poor doctrine?
No sermons please...just answers. Thanks! =D
Pete
To be honest, I thought I was gonna get some 30-something burnout who just needed a job, but I ended up talking to the sweetest old lady. I didn't have the heart to ask her why Jesus told the rich young dude to sell everything he had and give that money to the poor, nor about the passage in Proverbs that compares giving to the poor and lending to the Lord, letting Him repay.
To be honest, I choked when I was on the phone with her. There have been other situations recently where I've had to be very black and white concerning doctrine and obscene ways of thinking, and that with people who were once close friends. So what's the ideal way to try and save people from the gospel of greed? Obviously it varies from person to person, but with the advent of political correctness, universalism, total acceptance, and moral relativism, there's a comfort in finding something solid...something that doesn't get it's core changed when a fault is found; something that has no fault.
If we know what we're looking for in God and have the ability to swallow hard, then it's a little easier to acknowledge that the problem is with us.
At my job, I come in contact with a lot of people, and I've gotten a whole lot of tracts. The most recent one I received a few days ago, and I was getting kind of fed up with them, so I tried to give it back to the chick that handed it to me, saying, "I already go to church." But she got pushy and told me to make sure. To be honest, that actually frustrated me. Why are pushy people usually the ones that are wrong?
I got home, pulled the tract out of my pocket, and the first page, in huge font, read "THE LORD KILLS - REPENT!" Sounds like a Fred Phelps ripoff to me. It went on to explain to me that God hates (Psalm 5:5-6, 11:5, 78:59, 106:40, Hosea 9:15, Jeremiah 12:8, Romans 9:11-13, Leviticus 20:23, 26:30, and Proverbs 22:14), that God is angry (A personal favorite...Psalm 7:11, Romans 1:18-32) that believers pray against people, (Psalm 55:15, 69:22-28, 109, Revelation 6:10, 2 Timothy 4:14), that Christmas is a Catholic/Pagan lie and not at all biblical (John 4:24, Jeremiah 10:1-5, Revelation 22:15, Deuteronomy 12:29-32), that women are to be silent in church, that God causes all, even sin (Isaiah 63:17, Jeremiah 10:23, 17:9, Romans 1:28f, 11:32, 36), God kills babies (Hosea 9:16), God creates people for hell (Proverbs 16:4, Romans 9:6-24, Psalm 92:5-7), God sends lies (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12, 2 Chronicles 18:18-22), God brings disasters (Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6, Lamentations 3:38, Revelations 6-19), Jerusalem is God (Psalm 48:12-14, Jeremiah 33:16, Psalm 137:6).
Of course I have to confess that I gave up checking out the references by the second one I listed here. There's more, but some are actually correct. That second one, about God being angry, meant more with the wicked than just sitting on His throne being moody. It just tickled me.
What struck me the most was the very last page of this tract, past the part that talked about Billy Graham being a false teacher and Easter not being a true Christian holiday, was their financial perspective. Here's exactly what it said:
"God does not need your money! This is printed in the name of the 'Rock of Offense' (1 Peter 2:8). We operate strictly by faith, without having to ask for any money. Without your contribution, God can and still does save people!" Then it went on to quote 2 Corinthians 2:17.
So how should I have dealt with the chick that gave me that tract at work? Told her to wait until I had a break so we could sit down and go over this drivel? I try to be as nice and Christiany as the next dude, but when someone tries to take a dump on my mind in the name of God it's a little upsetting.
So I pose to you the question: What would you do if someone was as pushy with you about the crap they're handing out? Would you take it, fold it up, and swat them with it until they got to the solace of their car, and then put it under the windshield wiper? Just throw it away? Light some incense and burn the tract with it? What?
I know that, at least for me personally, the time for timidity has been winding down for a while now. God's been bothering me about stepping up and being a respectable (read: atypical) Christian, but He's also been speaking to me about toning down the temper that still flares up in a nasty way every once in a while. I've been given instructions on what to do to deal with it, but there's also time involved; I've prepared my recipe but I still have to spend time in the oven. So how should wiser, more mature, more 'sanctified' Christians deal with people who continue to evangelize naivety and poor doctrine?
No sermons please...just answers. Thanks! =D
Pete
Comment
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Comment by Daena J Welborn on May 26, 2009 at 10:19pm -
Well, just a little testimony here - I was saved through a Morman! I used to be a practicing witch, but as a young child my neighbors took me to church, so I had the basics as a kid. Well, about 9 years ago a couple of little Morman boys came to my door. I said "What do you want with me, I'm a witch?" Well that freaked them out a little, but I asked them for a copy of their bible and they gave me one. I had every intention of reading it and using what I learned against them. It didn't take me long to figure out that what I was reading was hogwash and when they came back the next week, boy was I ready! I opened the door and threw their bible at them and said, "This is not a bible, don't ever come back to my house unless you bring me a real bible!" Well...........they did. They brought me a King James Version Holy Bible the very next week. Never said a word to me, just laid it on my porch. About a month later, I opened that bible for the first time, fell on my knees and recieved Jesus Christ as my personal savior. What a glorious day.
You never know - just be led by the Spirit in all you say and do - He does the work, we are just the vessels of His grace
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Comment by Sharon Little on May 26, 2009 at 7:51pm - hmm...interesting
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Comment by Doug Lee on May 26, 2009 at 12:00pm -
Hmmm, TV preachers...
Well, I'll just come right out and say it - some are fake. You can tell them by the sensationalism and gimmickry, the emphasis on miracles, but no depth of teaching, no challenge to believers to go deeper into God. Some of them might not even be saved. I say that because they know they are fake, they see believers as gullible prey to be exploited, and they don't even believe the messages they preach. These are the minority, and they seldom stay on any one channel for long. They might disappear, but they come back on another station. They usually get more money from "crusades."
Some are merely deceived. They are only operating on what they have heard from other men, and not from God. If they knew the truth, they would at least try to preach and walk in it. But because of what they have heard seems legitimate, and because it does achieve results, they think it's the right way to go.
Of course, some do pursue and proclaim the truth. You will find different levels of truth in these ministries.
One thing I have noticed over the years that is a warning sign that a minister is starting to stray, or is straying - they are, or they become a one-man show. They seldom associate with other ministries, and the ones they do associate with are just like them.
About the people with the tracts: sometime we have JW's make a sweep through the neighborhood. I usually tell them I'm not interested, and they go on to the next house because they are used to the rejection. At times I feel like taking one of the tracts just to study it and be ready to expose the error, but to do so could be dishonest. The person handing out the tract would assume I genuinely interested in their religion. I've thought it would be a better approach wold be to have a tract of my own then, I could say, "I'll take yours if you take mine." That would make it seem like a fair exchange.
Of course it would not be a fair exchange. I would be taking from them an instrument of error and deception that would have wound up in someone else's hands, and I would be giving them an instrument of truth that could set them free.
As for a pushy tract pusher, when you don't have a tract of your own to give them, maybe the best tactic would be to ask them to put their name and number or email on the tract in case you have questions. Then after praying for them, contact them with some questions that will open a discussion where you can present the truth.
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Comment by Charles Atkinson on May 26, 2009 at 10:19am -
As always we are to be led by the Spirit. Having heard that myself soooo often, it begins to sound cliche-ish - like saying that is a pat answer. But here's how it breaks down for me:
Depending on the situation, my perspective that day, the opportunity…in the given scenario you mentioned, I may talk to the person by throwing out a like “bait on a fish hook” and see how they respond. If there is openness (which I will know by discernment in my spirit based on past experiences and time spent praying in the spirit), then I will feel a freedom to minister truth to the person. If there is no openness, I may make a suggestion (plant a seed) that the person could investigate if the seed itches on their mind.
Otherwise…(here is something I’ve begun to consider more and more recently), I am free from the false obligation that I HAVE TO speak truth to the person just because they are wrong. Scripture says “touch not mine anointed”. So if that person pushes something on me (the anointed), then I can trust God is going to deal with them in mercy but in justice.
The reason I say I’m free from false obligation is because I don’t see God pushing a teaching of truth upon people who push their perspective on him i.e. scripture says that God gave them over to a depraved mind, meaning, he let them go on down the path they’d chosen (Rm 1). They had a witness of the truth in nature, etc, but because they rejected it, he let them have their own way.
That’s why I’ve begun to feel freer in NOT talking to everyone – NOT trying to set everybody straight when I hear them spout out some false teaching (even among my friends/co-church members). I extend grace to those I’m around, knowing they are only saying what they’ve been taught. But if they are sincere then their hearts are seeking him, they will come to a place where they’ll be open and receive the truth – that I may be the one to minister that truth to them, so I’ll wait for the right opportunity to be led to plant that seed so it’ll grow to maturity. (Not planting the seed when the ground is frozen (winter) or too dry (mid-summer).)
Paul demonstrated the same thing with the girl who had a familiar spirit (fortune-telling). It finally irked him enough to do something about it. Till then, he let it go. Same with Jesus – when the conditions were right, he turned and spoke to the Phoenician woman.
My $.02
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